Protests are working!

Awesome........every person can make a difference. These protests work, 'cause they make people think. Bravo Stacy!!!!!

I have a few questions about the protesting you all are doing.
What is it you want pet stores to do? Not selling poor animals is one thing, but products are needed for the care of animals true or false? I have to ask this because sometimes I stop in to buy stuff needed for my pets not all stores carry the same thing and I hate always buying thru the mail so if you put stores out of business what are we suppose to do for supplies? Petsmart and petco sells fish & small animals also, So why aren't you protesting all of them instead of picking on a select few? I am not trying to offend anyone here but we need businesses to supply us with the things needed at a reasonable price, or we will end up with only a few places to shop, Or it will be like walmart pushing out the little people so you have no choice but shop the higher priced stores.
I believe in adopting from rescues/shelters as I have several dogs from local shelters. I just want a choice to shop around in the future for supplies. I agree they should help shelters and not sell puppy mill dogs, and maybe that should be a focal point in the protesting not putting stores out of business.

I want Uncle Bills, Petland and Safari Pets to stop selling puppies from puppy mills. We all know their puppies are from puppy mills, but Uncle Bill's flat out denies it. I will NEVER, EVER shop at a place like that under ANY circumstance. I find UB's to be, at best, inhumane,socially irresponsible, and liars. If you don't know anything about the horror of puppy mills, I suggest you get Jana Kohl's book "A Rare Breed of Love." Then you'll understand.

You're exactly right about the focal point. I don't want them to go out of business. I just want them to start working with shelters and stop buying from puppy mills. From my understanding, the point of the protests is to get people to boycott the store until they stop selling puppy mill puppies and start working with shelters. The thinking being, if they see a decline in sales overall, they will feel pressure to change the way they do business.

I shop at Pet Supplies Plus because they don't sell animals at all. There are more and more pet supply places popping up that don't sell animals - Moochie and Co, For the Love of Dogs Bakery, Healthy Hounds. I'm glad to see that. I hope eventually people will understand they need to take more care when selecting a pet than to just run in a store and grab the first cute thing they see.

Hi Freda. Actually you hit the nail on the head. We are NOT trying to close the pet stores. Everyone has a right to have a business and sell pet products. It is nice to have a variety of stores. What we are trying to do is to get pet stores that sell puppies to quit doing so. If they would take their current puppy area and let rescue groups or shelters in there with adoptable animals, they would still make a ton if not more money. People adopting almost always spend $$ on supplies, food, training books, etc while they are at the store. Petco and Petsmart are very smart and do this. I imagine on the days they do adoptions, they see a spike in their sales. It would also encourage more people to go to their stores particularly people like me that will NOT go into a store that sells puppies. Puppy mills have got to be one of the worst things on this earth. It makes me sick to think of those adult dogs being kept in those conditions just for someone to make a quick buck. Disgusting! I know if people could see their puppy's parents, they would never even consider buying. Another side note to stores that sell puppies and kittens, it's an impulse buy. As we all know, puppies and kittens are so stinking cute that I can hardly keep from taking them all home. People go in and see how cute they are. They're able to use a payment plan to buy it and take it home right then. Very rarely has there been any talk about obtaining an animal prior to the pet store visit. As we all know, unless the whole family is in agreement and has spent time thinking about how they are going to take care of a pet and afford it, the pet is the one that suffers. So many times these impulse purchases are then sold to someone else on the internet(CL), given to a friend or even dumped at a shelter because the people don't have the time, patience, $, etc for a pet. So that's something else we're trying to stop. Please let me know if you have any other questions. I'm glad you asked because it gives everyone a chance to offer their ideas and opinions.

Stacy, you must be so proud of your mom! That's wonderful to hear that we are starting to make a difference.

I guess I'd like to see more educating than protesting to shut a business down. So why don't we see billboards/posters showing puppy mill dog conditions. And why isn't Animal Control doing more to shut mills down and why isn't the ASPCA helping shut them down. That's where changes need to be made. Not railroading a company out of business.
I don't need to read any books, after all I adopted Sadie whom was a puppy mill breeding machine, And I've seen alot by helping out at shelters. I shop at all the local pet stores not just one, because not one carries everything I need. I like pet supplies plus but they are limited to. So I only get eagle pack from them and petco and petsmart for other supplies and Uncle Bills for the parrot supplies I need, that the other stores don't carry.

Freda, There are billboards. There is one on 465. They cost $4,000 a month to keep up. If you would like to contribute to the billboard campaign go to www.petshoppuppies.org

No one is campaigning to put the stores out of business. We are protesting to ask them to change their business model.

The USDA regulates puppy mills. They are not illegal so ASPCA and animal control can't do anything. The only time you see them do anything is when someone can get inside a puppy mill and take under cover video and then be able to file animal cruelty charges. But, that isn't easy. The big puppy mill down in Tennessee that was raided last month (700 dogs, 20 different breeds) had been cited before, but due to technicalities had not been shut down.

If you want to read more about what some of us would like to see for Uncle Bills and other pet shops like it visit http://saveindianaanimals.blogspot.com/2008/07/pet-shops-should-go-humane.html

I am all for choices in shopping . I lived in Waterloo , Belgium where we had sooo little choice, the shopping was bare minimum. There are so many choices here .Is it worth it to me to support a store who repeatedly has denied the fact that they support the horrific commerce of puppy mills ? Every time you shop in one of those stores stores you are showing that a) you don't care b) you don't know and need to seriously look at those puppies - they don't look healthy to me or c) hope that because it's an ugly problem it will go away if you ignore it .Frankly to me America is all about choices we can make . I choose not to support anyone who puts their own greed ahead of the quality of life for puppies and kittens.Rescues want their animals to go to the best homes , Uncle Bill's and the like want the best price period end of story .If I want more variety than giant stores like Petco and Petsmart , I shop online and sleep better at night.

Exactly America is about free choice. Because one should be able to shop for supplies for the animals they have, without feeling guilty. I want to buy locally not online or from another country or some over priced store. As long as no one is buying puppies what does it hurt to go in there. And U B's is not the only ones looking for big bucks for dogs & cats, look at HSI and some of the breed rescue prices. I go to animal control all the time and I see what HSI and some breed rescues have tossed over to them to be killed. I will gladly donate to a billboard for doing away with puppy mills, But I will continue to shop UB's for what I need.

I agree with Freda. I do, however, agree that UB etal should stop selling puppies and kittens. Sadly, the USDA doesn't seem to do a very good job of policing puppy mills as they are responsible for doing so. Once again our govenment fails not just us but the poor animals coming out of there. Nothing new there. I believe that UB etal should be made aware either by physically protesting - letter campaigns etc. Sadly, the almighty buck is the bottom line here. And it is tragic.

I am really sorry to hear that you are going to continue to shop at UBs. You are then continuing to support puppy mills by buying products at UBs. Really the only way to make a difference to them is if it hits them financially. If people quit buying puppies and supplies, they will have to look at their practices and change them. There are plenty of other pet supply shops in Indy. Tell us what side of town you are on and I'm sure we can come up with plenty of better choices for you. I agree that HSI has become a doggy boutique with some of their prices for dogs as well. I understand breed specific rescues charging higher amounts for rescue dogs particularly if it is a breed that is prone to specific health problems. I think all rescues and shelters should charge the same for an animal regardless of its breed. When you charge more for purebred dogs or more desirable designer dogs, you are de-valuing the lives of the other dogs. I wish you would reconsider shopping at UB since there are so many other pet stores in town that do NOT sell puppy mill dogs. And as far as going in to look at them, every person that walks in there is a bonus to them. If they have very few people even entering the store, again they will need to re-visit their sales practices.

Maybe my post gave you the wrong impression. The tone of my post is referring more to my conversations with my mom than it is to the way the protests are done. No one at the protests actually discourages people from going into the store by talking to them or being rude. They have to stand quite a distance from the store, from my understanding. They just hold signs, mainly to educate people about puppy mills and ask them to boycott the stores that sell puppies.

If no one bought puppies there they would stop selling them, so by not buying their puppies you are definitely helping. Some of us want to go one step further and not buy anything there in order to make a bigger impact. It's up to each individual. If they started losing money because of their choice to sell puppies, I think they would change their business model before they went out of business. If you don't see anything wrong with buying supplies there, you shouldn't feel guilty about it. We all have different feelings about things. We don't always have to agree on everything in order to be on the same side of an issue. I applaud your choice to not buy a puppy from there. If everyone did that, they wouldn't be selling them. I feel like I have to stop shopping there in order to bring about change quicker. You don't have to agree with me on that, but my mom does!! I didn't spend the last 32 years training her for her to disagree with me!! :)

Freda--First, you should be commended for adopting shelter dogs.
Regarding your question, "what is it you want pet stores to do?" The last thing anyone wants to do is put these pet stores out of business. We are simply asking them to stop perpetuating the puppy mill industry by selling their puppies. Yes, we are asking consumers to boycott stores that continue to support this industry. While our primary request is that consumers not buy the puppies, we also ask consumers to stop all support of these stores.
Of course we need products for our pets. However, many people think stores that do not support this cruel industry should benefit over those that do.
Does this mean you may have fewer options or may have to drive a bit farther to get what you need? Perhaps.
Our position is that the immense suffering of the breeding parents locked in wire cages for their entire lives calls for each of us to make this comparatively insignificant sacrifice.

Since you said you wished people would educate rather than protest, let me tell you how rescues work financially so you'll understand where the fees come from. Rescue groups charge a fee for the dogs they adopt out to cover medical expenses. For some of the dogs adopted out the fee more than covers the expenses we put into that dog. That does not equal profit! It means that the dog that was hit by a car and would be put down at a local shelter can now get orthopedic surgery. It means that a heartworm postitive dog who just needs a few hundred dollar treatment to be 100% heathly can now be treated rather than euthanized. Rescues take diabetic dogs, sick dogs, injured dogs and spend hundreds of dollars in some cases to make them better. Then they are adopted out at a huge loss. Rescues (reputable ones) balance the dogs they take in so that the ones who cost the rescue very little to adopt out generate the funds needed to help the special needs dogs who would get put to sleep in the shelter 100% of the time.

Yeah! Great job, Stacy! One person CAN make a difference! Yay!

It wasn't me! It was all of you out there protesting! It made my mom stop and think about it more. She's been listening to me go on about animals for over 25 years. I think she's numb to it! ;)

Seriously, when I was 6, I had this counting book. For the number 1 it said, "One puppy sad and alone. Won't someone come and take him home?" I took that book to my mom in tears and asked her if we could go get that puppy! My mom told me that was just a book and the puppy wasn't real, but I insisted there were puppies out there lonely. Now, I like to refer back to that story and tell her how right I was!!

Thanks Mandy! I was getting ready to pretty much say the same thing sine we volunteer for a breed rescue group and understand how much money is spent on some of these dogs that are in more dire need.

Kudos, Stacy and puppy mill protesters!

With regard to puppy prices at Uncle Bills versus shelters, as Mandy said, the shelter prices are merely to cover expenses, not make profit. Even $100 to $200 is nothing compared to the $1000 or $1500 price tags on pet shop puppies. True, that price is comparable to what you would pay at a responsible and reputable breeder. But with a r + r breeder, that money goes to traveling to show & competing the parents, getting health tests on eyes, hips, knees and any other genetic problems for the parents, and getting the parents and puppies fully vetted. The r + r breeder usually does not make much profit either. But those pet shop puppies don't see the vet. Their parents never see the vet, get any tests, and never compete or attend shows. The goal of the puppy miller, the middle man dealer, and the pet store owners is to keep costs as low as possible to make the maximum profit.

You can try to justify high adoption fees all you want, but let's be honest here, rescues decide how to move the animals in their care, & set the rules and price. but if the fee is as much as a pet store then why not go to a petstore & get a puppy with no issues, such as you decribed. After all they won't be turned away because the live in a apartment or because they don't have a fence. I know how rescues work and don't work.I have a breeders dog and a breed rescue here and a shelter dog that was not cared for at the shelter because she need surgery on her hip which I chose to pay for as well as her spaying and shots and that was my choice. I also have another shelter dog with big issues but that was also my choice.I have helped at shelters and know they also lie and some never try to get the available grants or involve themselves in the public, because it is to much work for them. I know they also turn there back on some as well but I also know there are good ones that do the right thing. I also know groups send towns to other states and don't get the prices they ask for here. So think hard why do people buy puppies from pet stores???? Who really sends them to buy that cute puppy??? Did your group turn people away because they lived in an apartment or didn't have a 6ft fence?
I don't buy anything but supplies I need at pet stores and will continue without feeling guilty. Petco,Pet Smart sells animals maybe not cats and dogs,But how many birds and small animals end up in rescues. Now think about that. Do alittle research then try to justify protesting only against Safari Pets & UB's. We all need certain supplies and not one store in town carries all we need was my point to begin with and I don't think putting certain stores out of business is right. Don't believe me about all those birds in rescues try checking out www.gabrielfoundation.org or check out petfinder birds in rescues. Oh but what does that matter to your group they let you use their stores to setup.

Freda, you cannot adopt a puppy from a pet store and expect it to have no issues. Pet store puppies are some of the "lowest quality" as far as health is concerned.

Also, Petsmart DOES sell cats and dogs, but they only work with local shelters and organizations instead of puppy mills. Protesting against Uncle Bills etc will only help business at places such as Petsmart (down the road from UB on the east side) that try to help homeless animals instead of create more.

Now, I do not agree that shelters should be charging people $300-$400 per animal, but I work at an animal hospital that works with a ton of shelters and I am fully aware of how much money those shelters put into the care and well-being of all of their adoptable animals. A fee needs to be required in order for them to continue to do what they do for those animals.

I'm not sure what groups you have experienced in the past but you shouldn't paint all rescues with the same brush. We adopt to people in apartments, people without fences, students, whoever we determine makes a good and loving home. The prices for our dogs vary only $50 from highest price do lowest and are determined by age mostly and not at all by the amount of money we did or didn't put in the dog. We aren't the ones making judgments...

And if you think you'll get a healthy pup from a pet store then work for a rescue who gets the owner's pleas for us to take their pet store pups in to our rescue because they can no longer afford the medical care associated with that "no issue" pups seizures, parvo, hip dysplasia, eye problems, etc.

Freda, it isn't a perfect world in animal welfare, but those of us in the rescue community are fighting the best way we know how to stop the abuses we see every day in the hours of volunteer work we pour into this cause. If you don't feel the need to boycott UB, not much we can say or do about it. You made your choice and we are making ours.

We live in America and you're free to shop where ever you like. As for me and my household, we will not shop Uncle Bill's or any other shop that sells puppy mill puppies. We all need to be able to sleep at night and my conscience would condemn me if I shopped there. Obviously, you have thought about this and made the decision for yourself on where to shop. So, if you're okay with it, that's all you should be concerned about I suppose. Remember, the protests are not designed to shut these businesses down, but to get them to change their practices and also to educate the general public about puppy mills. Most people have no idea.

I don't expect to adopt a dog without any issues from a shelter/rescues. I would gladly pay whatever adoption fees are reasonable but would or can others? I don't think people should buy puppy mill dogs either, that's their mistake. But I am not interested in helping a big store take over like walmart has and push small business out so you have only higher priced stores to choose from with limited supplies, is my issue. I want to be able to find what I need without shopping from online or another country. Only one store I know of here carries eagle pack or the supplies for my parrot I get at uncle bill's and so I have to go from place to place and find what my babies need. Will you be happy with a limited choice in the future? Is there certain foods you need for a certain type of breed or species? All the stores carry limited supplies now and so you have to shop around sometimes. It's like being a large person and hey you can only get your size at a very few stores so that sends you to a store that is higher priced because they know you need it. So without choice what happens to comparative shopping. And just because Petsmart helps shelters doesn't mean they aren't selling other animals to end up in rescues and contributing to a bird or small animal mills now does it? So why not protest Petco and Petsmart as well and put them out of business.

While I respect your passion, I believe that you are misinterpreting the groups goals and intent. It is not a matter of wanting "less" choice or putting "local" and/or "family" retailers out of business.

I'm a big fan of the free market and as such, am a proponent of choice and think it is more choice not less that is what is best, it gives consumers power. Consequently, I also make a choice to shop at Pet Supplies Plus - which while franchised, are all locally owned.

I think that the protesters overarching goal (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) is not to shut Uncle Bills or other puppy purveyors down, but to get them to discontinue selling dogs, cats etc. I think that if they did that, no one on here would have a problem patronizing such a business. All you have to do is look around at all the independant shops that are thriving - city dog, PSP, etc. to know that - pet supplies are such a HUGE segment in the economy (billions spent each year, discussions such as the one I participated in a few days ago where we agonized over dog food choices), there is no need to peddle dogs and cats to turn a profit - others do quite well without that business segment.

So, what we have here is a perfect example of the free market theory - I don't like what you're selling, so I choose to go somewhere else - it is not an endorsement of wal mart or other "big box" retailers but of consumers forcing change with their dollars - akin to not shopping at wal mart because of their employment practices, or refusing to buy tyson meat because of their coop conditions. Am I looking to put Tyson out of business? no, I'm using my money to force change that I think is beneficial.

As was said before, it is all about personal choice, and everyone has a right to their own. These protesters are educating people so that they can have all the information to make their own informed personal choices (informed is the key) - whatever they may be.

Okay, not to sound bitchy, but which part of "We're not trying to put them out of busiess, just trying to get them to change their business practices" is hard to understand? Freda, you seem to keep saying that we're trying to put people out of business, which isn't true. Please understand the difference. It's critical.

I just wanted to post a few little comments on semantics. I think for public perception we sometimes need to be careful how we say things.

1. First of all, if you get a puppy at a pet store or from a breeder, you are buying it, not adopting it or rescuing it. Even if the reason you buy it is to save it from deplorable conditions.

2. I don't know if it's like this everywhere, but at the Petsmarts I've volunteered for shelters at, they do not sell the animals for the rescue. Petsmart doesn't handle the money at all, except to keep it in the safe until the shelter representative gets it to take to the bank. When someone adopts a cat from me at the Petsmart, they give the money to me, it doesn't go in the register. Petsmart is basically providing the space. If the adopters buy any supplies, that's all Petsmart.

Didn't Stacy get after her parents for buying supplies needed for fish and ask them not to shop there? wasn't a statement made not to buy from UB's and help put them out of business? I believe I read that here several times in the past. Why is it OK for the other stores to add to a rescue as long as it isn't dogs or cats? What happens when Protesters show up at Petco and Petsmart asking people not to shop there because they sell birds and small animals from a breeder mills. Would it put them out of business if no one shopped there at all. I read post here all the time asking people to stop buying stuff from UB's and Pet Safari and how happy people are when a pet store closes. Have I been mistaken about what has been discussed here on indypaws so many times? Would I contribute to a place that protested to stop a puppy mill or any type of mill. I have and will continue to in the future. So how many people would support a protest at all the pet stores (including Petco & Petsmart) that sells birds and small animals from breeders mills??
Not shopping at stores puts them out of business it doesn't change how they operate.

I never said they did sell cats or pups there,that was someone else's statement. I knew better than that from helping out the shelters there.

There is a period of time in which a business will evaluate its model and will revise it to meet the demands of the public. If their business is hurt because of our protesting, that's an effective way of getting their attention but still gives them time and opportunity to turn their business around.

Shop where you like. It's a free country we live in. I'm done with this conversation.

As Kris said (and I'm done with this post too as it keeps running in circles, I"m sort of exhausted)- it is economics/business management 101 - if your business plan isn't working, you don't just sit there and wail "woe is me" and go bankrupt - you change your business plan. That's the goal - to change their plan so they don't trade in animals, but trade in animal supplies and products.

Obviously you've made your choice and I've made mine and we're not going to see eye to eye.

Good luck, and I hold out hope that Tequila finds her way home to you.

Anne
I'm done with this to, But I have enjoyed busting chops, not many people do ever disagree here. So I felt the need to make people think why they are doing it and what they wanted from it, And to see how many reversed what they have stated here in the past. Freedom is a wonderful thing.
Thanks for keeping watch out for Tequila, but let's be honest she has been gone since November, and most likely died or put down (because of her breed) somewhere even thou she was chipped. But I still check all the sites daily and will continue with hopes of a return.

We can always hope! And at the very least, I think your posts have done a lot to educate people on her breed and she had a great life while with you, I'm sure.

And I'm a lawyer, so I love busting chops myself...:)

My comments on semantics were for all.

I personally don't think pet supply stores should sell birds, rabbits, ferrets or pocket pets either. People should go to reputable and responsible breeders or rescues for those as well as cats & dogs. They are considered even more disposable than cats & dogs and are mistreated at breeding facilities just as often. But you have to start somewhere, and dogs are highly visible and easy for many people to empathize with. At this point it's a matter of choosing our battles.

Pet stores that sell animals will ONLY go out of business IF they refuse to change with the times and the wishes of their potential customers. When I celebrate the closing of a store that sold puppies, it isn't because the store closed, but because it is one less outlet for the mills. I would celebrate EVEN MORE if a store CHANGED from selling dogs and cats to working with rescues. That would be a true victory because that would mean that the store owners finally "got it".

I would also like to add that simply keeping an eye on the conditions of animals living in a store is important. My daughter and I would visit a pet store that sold cockatiels and every time we went they looked stressed and depressed . The cages were clean, the people were nice but we realized that the birds were always in seperate cages. When asked they always said that it was because they couldn't mix males and females . We continued to watch and finally I emailed the regional manager . Not too long after I got an email back -there was a big change. 9 times out of 10 there were 2 or more birds in the cage and they even played music for them !The birds were so much happier, grooming and whistling , it was a wonderful change to see. Later I heard that the woman handling the birds found them easier to deal with if they were seperate and she had been doing that against company policy .. Until they changed I never bought my supplies there. I really appreciated the fact that they were willing to improve.I also heard that the birds were much healthier when the vet checked them . I would prefer that they not sell them at all but as someone said , we have to start somewhere .Incidentally they no longer sell birds there , and only show rescue cats and dogs.

It is wonderful that you were able to effect change at the pet store. And, honestly, I would be happy to support any pet store that changed their policy and stopped selling animals. I would also spread the word about their good changes and encourage others to shop from them.

That's great you helped make a change at a pet store, but here (except for Pet Supplies Plus) they all sell birds and small animals.
So no changes here in Indy.
So where's this store so people can shop where no animals are sold.